a talk about language

topic posted Mon, December 29, 2008 - 8:24 AM by  Jivatma
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anyone who listens to enough McKenna will hear him talk about language, but he only mentions it, i never heard him real delve into the subject. why did he think language could change the world?
posted by:
Jivatma
Connecticut
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  • Re: a talk about language

    Wed, December 31, 2008 - 12:31 AM
    Imagine what might happen if more people concentrated on love, on freedom, on eternity.

    Most people think ideas are flimsy things.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: a talk about language

      Wed, December 31, 2008 - 1:48 AM
      Sometimes i see words as rudders on a ship
      • Re: a talk about language

        Wed, December 31, 2008 - 11:26 AM
        language is a thought control mechanism...
        which, at once, brings some things into life while limiting some things outside of perception.

        There's a reason that some cultures' "Creation Myths" consist of primordial humans "naming" (and therefore bringing to life and into one's control) all that is perceived.
  • Re: a talk about language

    Wed, January 7, 2009 - 7:06 AM
    i dont have the link on hand, but i remember reading on a website about:

    language being essential to knowledge and cultural values that (tribal) people maintain and pass on. how each language holds special information that other languages cant express, i.e. for plants, herbs, that people have discovered and pass on with their language, whereas a person coming to the same place using a different language, cant understand what that is.

    language is an essential link to the earth and our relationship with it.
    • Re: a talk about language

      Sun, January 11, 2009 - 3:49 PM
      LANGUAGE is how we experience these worlds and realms and how we share that experience with others. SILENCE of LANGUAGE, even silence with sound, is how we experience the other worldly. No words can truly express the experience, or the variety in which it can be experienced-while still remaining the same! It's truly the mystic experience to shut the fuck up.
  • Re: a talk about language

    Sun, January 11, 2009 - 4:27 PM
    language is a manifestation of intention. it is a pathway for bringing the "as above" into the "so below".

    there is also a connection between the evolution of language and the creation of new realities...i don't have a firm (linguistic) grip on this, but i think it's what mckenna was getting at when he talked about logos.
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    Re: a talk about language

    Mon, January 12, 2009 - 4:20 PM
    might want to check out the book, The Language Instinct by Steven Pinker. Bit dated but classic. Language definately did not precede thought - in other words, we do not need language in order to think. I loved Orwell's 1984 but Double Speak really would not work - we would still have the thoughts even if the words for the thoughts did not exist.
    I think language is a lot like our senses in that mostly what language does for us is exclusive, helping to filter out sensory input so we can function. One of the things plant teachers do is remove this filter.
    • Re: a talk about language

      Mon, January 12, 2009 - 6:12 PM
      i haven't read pinker's book...maybe i should.

      we don't need language to be conscious...and maybe we don't need it to think (though some may argue that based on their definition of the verb "to think")...but language can shape our reality and has the power to manifest. (hakim bey, anyone?)

      also, language goes way beyond dictionary words...dna is a type of language, a powerful one. dna did not precede consciousness...but did dna precede thought? hmmm...i don't know.

      i'm not so sure about plant teachers removing the "filter of language". terence talked a lot about plant teachers, especially mushrooms (no secret here)...and in "food of the gods" he theorized that mushrooms were actually the catalyst for out species developing language, which allowed us to further evolve. (sort of a psychedelic missing link.)

      (i'm not debating here, simply musing...i think this is a rich, though tenuous topic..one of my favorites.)
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        Re: a talk about language

        Mon, January 12, 2009 - 6:45 PM
        at small doses the mushrooms have this loquacious effect
        but at high doses the mushrooms transcend language - language is a trick only of this physical existence of ours - only a tool of this body that we inhabit, no different than an eye for seeing or a hand for caressing or a foot for walking ... it seems to me that our higher self which exists in eternity is in a state profoundly different from this one - an eternal state that exists without language; without much that we find in this physical world.
        • Re: a talk about language

          Mon, January 12, 2009 - 7:39 PM
          not loquacious...linguistic. I believe that language is a tool of our consciousness as well…and much more than just a tool, like an eye or foot…it is a creative force that can shape our reality here on earth and rudder our evolution as a species.

          yes, our higher self exists in a state of eternity profoundly different from our physical incarnation…but what about how we use language while in this human form? What about the power of mantra, or incantation? What about language as a catalyst for new potentialities?
          • Re: a talk about language

            Tue, January 13, 2009 - 7:56 AM
            Also David Abram's "Spell of the Sensuous." In it, he posits how language is embedded within our direct experience of the natural environment. He suggests that language began from gutteral noises and gestures, firmly extant within the body; not unlike most animals. Yet, with the advent of writing -- particularly alphabetic writing -- our minds became more and more detached from the natural world. (This is not so much different from the thesis of Leonard Shlain's "Alphabet Versus the Goddess," in which he posits a shift from right- to left-brain thinking as a result of the invention and use of the "aleph beth.")

            I'm about half-way through "Spell of the Sensuous," and, thanks to my educational background in phenomenology, psychology, and linguistics -- I'm finding it to be a wonderfully enjoyable read.

            Steven Pinker's "Language Instinct" is next on my list.
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              Re: a talk about language

              Tue, January 13, 2009 - 8:09 AM
              I have read that language most likely evolved from gesticulation, the language center of our brains right next to the center that conrols arm and hand movements.
              I think molecular biology has put language aquisition at only about 50,000 years ago? If so that would make language an amazingly new phenomenon for us?
              Reading and writing are what get me. How could an organism develop through random selection and mutation into a being who can read and write? This always has blown my mind. It does now as I read this. Reading seems like some kind of magic?
              • Re: a talk about language

                Tue, January 13, 2009 - 12:09 PM
                I think language has been dated back to a period of ancient history known as "The Creative Explosion" or "The Great Leap Forward," the period dated some 35,000 or 40,000 years ago, in which formal burials, grave goods, and art work first emerged upon the scene. In any case tho, yes, it is a relatively recent phenomenon for humans -- as humans themselves, are amongst the younger species on the planet.. in the known universe.

                The way Abram, in SoS, describes it, written language was embedded within our very experience of the natural world. From the "whispering winds" to the "babbling brooks," to the messages conveyed by the hoof prints of a hunted prey, or the found scat upon the trail, or the honking of geese overhead announcing the weather forecast for the changing season.. From this, he argues, it was but a small jump to cave paintings, and rebuses, to ideograms. The shift, he says, came when the Hebrews, and later the Romans, detached written language from their experiential counterparts and made the written word (via the aleph beth) a relatively insular process. Indeed, the only way to understand the written word, up until the Middle Ages, was the speak it aloud, so as to understand the phonetic words. With, now, punctuation and word spacing, we have an entirely self-reflexive (and disconnected from the natural world) system of communication..

                And, indeed, it was considered by many to be a form of magic when it came into use.. There is a reason why the word "spell" has the connotations that it does..
  • Re: a talk about language

    Fri, January 16, 2009 - 7:02 PM
    Why language and Terence? If you listen carefully, in one of his talks he mentions that all of this "creating pictures and symbols" in our head with our internal video player came about from mushrooms, and the accompanying sensation of synesthesia (google it). He says that he sees a connection, but someone after him will find out why. I don't know how he knew, but he did.

    I found the connection after listening to a talk on consciousness by Vilayanur Ramachandran.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vila...ynesthesia

    Here is another talk he gave:

    www.ted.com/index.php/ta...our_mind.html

    It is a modulation and demodulation of our brain that keeps us creative into adult hood, and gives us the power of symbolic speech.

    I will be writing a book about all of this soon...
    • Re: a talk about language

      Fri, January 16, 2009 - 8:03 PM
      All perception is synaesthesia. That is to say, all perception is the unification of all senses: as you listen with your eyes, watch with your ears, and so on.
  • Re: a talk about language

    Sun, February 15, 2009 - 8:22 PM
    the perspective I gained from reading The Archaic Revival (which I HIGHLY recommend) is that our perception of reality is based solely on the language we have to describe it. What McKenna brings up is the idea that as language evolves, so does our consciousness (and that as our consciousness evolves, so does our language), and that we are moving forward to a point where language will not be spoken, but "beheld." This is reiterated in his talks about how the Ayahuasceros (the Ayahuasca healers of South America) will sing songs called Icaros, which in that specific altered-state actually produce visions. He argues that when we reach the place of language evolution where our language is "beheld" that it will allow for pure communication, without misinterpretation, as all parties involved in communicating will be able to see each other's words as thought-forms, and that they can in turn look at every angle of these thoughtforms with no difference in translation. The evolution of language can be seen in many forms...look at how computers, which at first could just produce basic binary sequences, are now creating moving images...McKenna was particularly interested in Virtual Reality and how it would open up our capability to evolve language. Also look at our bodies themselves (which also also composed of language- DNA), and how much we have grown from our ancestors...the evolution of humans is not something that has ended, but is something which is continuously moving forward and perfecting itself to fit with its environment. It seems that we are getting better and better at describing the world around us......

    Though I usually hate to reference movies when making a point, this one fits...In the end of the first Matrix movie, Neo begins to see the Matrix code flowing through everything around him, and upon this realization is able to see that the Matrix reality is solely composed of language, and that he can directly affect this reality through this understanding. When McKenna claims that the universe is composed of language, I feel like this is the image he is trying to convey, an ever-flowing stream of symbols that compose our perception of reality...except in our case I do not feel like this reality is a cage we must break out of, but rather it is a place we must fully understand, and that when we do understand the language that composes all things here, we will have ultimate control over it. Imagine knowing the language to alter your appearance, or create something out of "thin air" by uttering the right codes...we would become like gods in this realm...in full power and able to co-create anything we so desired. this is why, i believe, the evolution of language is directly related to the evolution of human consciousness...because when we finally evolve to the place where we have full control of our reality, we better be damned sure we're in a place to create the best reality possible (which would mean we'd all have to be incredibly highly evolved beings). what mckenna is touching on is another way of looking towards the same goal so many others have been looking towards for a long time, realizing our inherent ability to create (which many would call realizing our divine selves). When an artist fully masters a medium, it allows him/her to create anything he/she so desires within that medium. So when we master the language of our reality, we will be able to create within it, anything we so desire, and we will be able to do it easily as we will be able to be completely understood by all around us and any dispute caused by translation would just fade away.

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